A Programming Update
This is an edited version of the newest episode of Frank & Sense (available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts).
Hello everyone, and welcome back to Frank & Sense!
Avid listeners may have noticed that it’s been a few weeks since I put out an episode (and even longer since I put out an email). I’ve had a few production delays that have held up some episodes I have recorded and instead of quietly not releasing an episode again, I thought maybe I could use this as an opportunity to reintroduce myself and the show.
I started this podcast under a different name, in a much different time, and it took me years to get the first episode of this show published.
I’ve been a copious consumer of podcasts since 2011. And in the years since I first pressed play on a podcast, I’ve listened to a truly embarrassing amount of content. Probably tens of thousands of hours of shows. Here is a brief overview of the many, many shows that I’ve devoured over the years:
I’ve listened to Maron, Comedy Bang Bang, and pretty much everything on Earwolf. I listened to Serial and S Town. I’ve listened to hundreds of episodes of This American Life, Radiolab, and Reply All. (Sidenote: Respect must be paid to NPR - Fresh Air with Terry Gross and Diane Rehm were incredibly formative to me.) I’ve listened to Pod Save, Ezra Klein, and The Daily. I still listen to the Fantasy Footballers, Bill Simmons, too many of the Ringer shows, and Tony Kornheiser. I’ve been to a live recording of Harmontown (RIP) and a recording of Doughboys. I’ve listened to almost every episode of Blank Check, Hollywood Handbook, and YKS. I even listened to Trump on Rogan!
Anyway. I say all of this to demonstrate my bonafides and the extent of my podcast degeneracy. Unlike some other podcasters, I actually appreciate and respect the art form of podcasting. I’m not here to churn out slop, make a quick buck, sell you a weird mobile phone service or some crypto. In fact, I have so much integrity that I have actually made zero bucks from podcasting!
As a fan of the art form of podcasting, it’s hard to get romantic about podcasts, given where things are right now.
What do I mean by that? Take, for example, a somewhat dystopic story from the Hollywood Reporter from last week. (Here's a link to the article for anyone who wants to read it.)
The article is about an AI startup called Inception Point AI that is “flooding the zone” with AI podcasts. The numbers they put in the article are jawdropping - it has 5,000 podcasts across its network and they produce more than 3,000 episodes a week. They’re able to produce a podcast for $1 or less, and if only 20 people listen to the episode, they’ve made a profit.
What kind of podcasts are they, you ask? Here's a link to the website of their network, Quiet Please Podcast Network. They have AI “personalities” that host their shows. Perhaps you’d like to listen to food expert Claire Delish. Or a financial podcast with Pennie Power. Maybe you’d prefer gardener and nature expert Nigel Thistledown. Never mind that these podcasts are hosted by voices that have never eaten food, dealt with finances, or gardened!
But here’s the real question - Does anyone listen to this? Apparently yes, as depressing and befuddling as that is to me. They say they’ve had over 10 million downloads in the two years since they’ve launched.
But don’t take my word here! I’m biased. Here is what their CEO, Jeanine Wright, former COO of Wondery, says:
- “I think that people who are still referring to all AI-generated content as AI slop are probably lazy luddites. Because there’s a lot of really good stuff out there.”
- “We believe that in the near future half the people on the planet will be AI, and we are the company that’s bringing those people to life.”
So, when I say it’s hard for me to get romantic about podcasts, that’s an example of what I mean. Beyond the borderline dystopian vision for the future of 8 billion AI “people” in the near future, I’m just not interested in listening to a robot read a condensed Wikipedia page to me.
There are plenty of other reasons to feel depressed about the state of this art form - just look at the most popular podcasts. Yet despite that, I try to remain an optimistic guy. A hopeful guy. Even a romantic guy. So here goes. Here’s my case for why I love podcasts:
Podcasts serve many purposes. They can be entertaining, informative. But there is a special magic to a good podcast. Good podcasts have good chemistry - between listener and host, host and guest, guest and listener. A good podcast can act as a little audio time capsule floating around on the internet, preserving a moment in time like fossilized amber. Like Catherine O’Hara said in The Studio, “When it all comes together, and you make a good movie, it's good forever.” When you make a good podcast, it’s good forever.
Good podcasts are also usually defined by good people.
I’m interested in people. I’m interested in what makes people feel passionately, what animates them, what entertains them, what amuses them, what concerns them. Despite all of the ugliness in the world, I like people.
At some point, I looked around and realized that I am incredibly lucky to know a ton of good people. I started to daydream about hosting a podcast of my own.
Thanks to fan favorite guest and real life BFF Ross Godwin, I met with someone at the Washington Post about a potential opportunity in late 2019. She basically challenged me - why hadn’t I started my show yet? What was I waiting for? I didn’t have a good answer (except for a lifelong tendency to overthink instead of just making something).
2020 came and the world changed. I think most of what we’re going through now is in reaction to 2020. And I guess I had a reaction as well. My world was very small during the pandemic, as it was for many people. Though I was lucky to be with a person who I loved, whom I am now married to, I sometimes found myself feeling lonely and longing for community, eager to build and maintain connections with the people that I love. And then January 6, 2021 rolled around.
And so there I was, on January 6, feeling lonely, mainlining podcasts, developing all sorts of ideas in my head for a show but never acting on it, longing to maintain connections with friends, and all of the sudden an absolutely insane thing happens and I want to be able to process it. I guess you could say that this show was inspired by January 6…
It sounds terrible, but it’s the truth!
The first podcast I recorded on this feed was about January 6 and features fan favorite guest and real life BFF Mitch Lerner. I don’t know if it’s a good episode (I’ll leave that to you to decide) but I do think it’s interesting. It’s a little time capsule to that specific time.
Here’s another good thing that can happen with podcasts: They can help you process things. When we finished the episode, I felt a little better than I did before. Despite the bleakness of that day, it felt good to connect with a friend and to have a meaningful conversation.
The show had a different name at the time: “Let’s Be Frank.” Cute title, right? Well, as it turns out, there are about 374 different Franks around the world and they all have podcasts titled “Let’s Be Frank.” One of them in particular is a right wing dude on YouTube with about 100k followers. When I came across his feed I decided I needed a new title to differentiate myself.
The title of this show, Frank & Sense, literally came to me as an aha! moment as I was laying in bed one night. I picked up my phone to see if there was any other podcast with this name and that was that. I launched the rebranded show in 2024, with the goal of making it a weekly show. And I’ve (sort of) been able to do that! We’ve had some great episodes and series. I’m so thankful to everyone who has been a guest or listened.
But, every so often, for a variety of reasons, I won’t have an episode for a couple of weeks. And that’s when the analysis paralysis can sneak in. I’ll start to overthink all the ways in which I have failed to meet my perhaps unrealistic standards and expectations.
So let me level set some expectations with all of you beautiful listeners right now:
- I’m going to keep working on this show and keep the main ethos intact and in the forefront of my mind: I want to share meaningful conversations with good people. I want to capture moments that help people process the world, in the hopes of building community and connections.
- I will not churn out slop (no offense to my fellow podcasters Claire Delish, Pennie Power, or Nigel Thistledown).
- I’m going to do my best to publish an episode every week, but sometimes I may miss a week or two. As an independent podcast producer who works a full time job and blah blah blah, it’s hard to keep up. But I love doing this! I love making this show!
- We’re going to keep doing all of the series that you know and love, starting with Far Right Fright Nights next month.
Does the world need another podcast? Almost certainly not! But there is so much of the world that I am curious about, that I want to learn about, that I want to discuss, and I want to make sense of it all with you. Frank & Sense, that is.