Caleb Rudow on the Politics of Joyfulness

Frank is joined by his old friend Caleb Rudow. Caleb is a normal guy, who never imagined running for public office. Now he’s running for the House seat previously held by Mark Meadows and Madison Cawthorn (NC-11). Frank and Caleb talk about Caleb’s journey into politics, remaining joyful in the face of cynicism and fatalism, and magic.